Can't access web manager if Eclipse started, but CAN if using startup.sh

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Experts, I saw a post from 10 years ago here that had the opposite problem, but no solution.

I had re-installed in clean VMs for 2 days with no joy, just the web server saying it had no resource. None of my [servlet] tests worked. I seriously thought that I had read and carefully stepped through all instructions for first openJDK 19, then tomcat 10.0, and finally eclipse 2023-06.

Finally I tried via the ./bin/startup.sh, and like magic, the manager was working, auth worked, everything in the manager. I'm hoping this means that on command line the servlets will work, but I want to make a eclipse-managed-tomcat.

Before, no auth challenge, nada.

I don't expect to paste everything, and have you troubleshoot for me, but if someone can someone tell me where I should start to compare why there is a difference, it would be huge.

TIA

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